Curse

TheDarkGod · Jan 21, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Personally I hope that it DwG's 25% was just pulled to fix the apparant bug causing it to actually work as a 40% penetration and that it will be reinstated with the correct damage after testing.

At 5% the skill is still worthless, but with 25% it allows a rit to have offensive channeling capability comparable to an Air Ele spiker, which would seem to make sense given both use lightning attacks.

I've played a channeling rit as one of my characters since the launch of Factions and I was finally getting my hopes up that it might be a viable alternative to an elementalist for damage-dealing... I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Patccmoi · Jan 21, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkGod

At 5% the skill is still worthless, but with 25% it allows a rit to have offensive channeling capability comparable to an Air Ele spiker, which would seem to make sense given both use lightning attacks.

You know that's just wrong right? Lightning Orb/Hammer before 25% AP deal ~100 damage. Channeled Strike before 25% AP deals ~140 damage. If you give Channeled Strike 25% AP, it will be ~40% more damage than LOrb (it should do around 180 damage on 60AL with 25% AP). Imo 25% is seriously too big, bugged or not.

Channeling Rt already have very comparable damage to Air Spiker WITHOUT the 25% AP because the raw damage of their skills is significantly higher. I like giving DwG some AP idea, but 10-15% seems a lot more realistic. You gotta keep in mind that DwG doesn't only do that, it also does a 100 Area AOE blast when dropped (that includes the AP).

Dark Mage · Jan 21, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

something not related to these skills.. but about the skill [Ether Prodigy] the discription says it costs 5 nrg... but in fact it costs 10 nrg if you cast it.. and the 10 nrg is exhausted.. my question: is exhaustion standard 10 nrg or is this just a bug in the skill?

Snirp · Jan 21, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Elementalist air spells come with 25% ap without the aid of anything at all.

Also, the mana pool goes down if you're holding ashes, making it quite dificult to keep spells going.

So basicaly, comparing the ~80 energy mana pool elementalist air spells to the ritualist ~30 energy ( with the ashes ) mana pool ritualist channeling spells that need a specific elite ( that removes your wand/focus/staff while using it) to give ap is quite unfair imo.

Patccmoi · Jan 21, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snirp

Elementalist air spells come with 25% ap without the aid of anything at all.

Also, the mana pool goes down if you're holding ashes, making it quite dificult to keep spells going.

So basicaly, comparing the ~80 energy mana pool elementalist air spells to the ritualist ~30 energy ( with the ashes ) mana pool ritualist channeling spells that need a specific elite ( that removes your wand/focus/staff while using it) to give ap is quite unfair imo.

When you find an air elite that buffs the damage of your air skills by 40%, tell me. The thing is, Channeling =~ Air in term of damage WITHOUT DwG. In fact, Channeling can sustain higher damage than air ele quite easily, especially with the buff to Earshot range for Spirit Burn (5/1/5 over 100 damage, compare that to Lightning Strike which is 50 with 25% AP?). Channeled Strike vs LOrb can't miss and does very nearly same damage against 60AL and still close against others. And it has lower cooldown too now.

And when you compare 80 Energy Pool vs 30 Energy Pool, compare the general cost of the skills too. Gaze from Beyond, Wielder's Strike, Spirit Burn are all 5E. Essence Strike is a very good energy management included in the line (which air lacks out of air atune). Channeled Strike is 10E. Lightning Hammer and Lightning Orb are 25E and 15E, so ya they have bigger pool but they empty it much faster too if they plan to maintain nuking with it. Not to mention that 80 Energy Pool means a high investment in Energy Storage while a Channeling Rt still has over 100 attribute points to put wherever he wants.

Really Channeling was comparable to Air before. DwG simply made Channeling Rt incredibly more powerful than Air while it was broken at ~40% AP. 25% AP would still make them much more powerful, and you can sustain DwG nuking easily non-stop using Essence Strike + Spirit Siphon or GoLE or any Inspiration spell (that you can pour 12 points into! Power Drain at 12 insp is elite emanagement if you're good at it). I played Channeling Rt a lot, and emanagement is very rarely a problem if you use Essence Strike on recharge with a bunch of 5E nukes.

Symbol · Jan 21, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Channeling was totally superior to air for damage. Their skills are instant hit, do more damage on average, and are cheaper. The only thing air had going for it was utility.

Yawgmoth · Jan 22, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Good update but would 10%penetration for DwG be too much? 5% is close to unnoticable, which doesnt make this skill useful.

And you forgot again about Resilient Weapon, listed in update notes as "decreased Energy cost to 5." but still remaining at 10 even after this fix-update.

Phades · Jan 22, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

When you find an air elite that buffs the damage of your air skills by 40%, tell me. The thing is, Channeling =~ Air in term of damage WITHOUT DwG. In fact, Channeling can sustain higher damage than air ele quite easily, especially with the buff to Earshot range for Spirit Burn (5/1/5 over 100 damage, compare that to Lightning Strike which is 50 with 25% AP?). Channeled Strike vs LOrb can't miss and does very nearly same damage against 60AL and still close against others. And it has lower cooldown too now.

For reference, lightning strike will do 70 damage at max skill vs a AL 60 target. Renewing surge, without *any* armor penetration does 63 damage at max skill level, while having the added bonus of instantly recharging if you are holding an item. With DwG having the "unbugged" 25% armor penetration you are looking at 81 damage...... Moving on.

Lightning orb, lightning hammer, and mind shock do 140 vs a AL 60 target. Ancestor's rage was buffed up to 137 damage. Recharge was cut down on channeled strike making it directly comparable to lightning orb and does 138, while both cost less energy than the elementalist equivilants. Adding in an unbugged 25% armor pen you are looking at 177 and 178 damage.

Glowing Gaze does 53 damage with no possibility for armor penetration and returns 10 energy at max skill on the "test" alteration of a 8s recharge. Essence strike does 63 damage against AL and returns 10 energy on the exact same recharge. Figuring in the same armor pen augmentation, its 81 damage like renewing surge.

Immolate does 63 damage with 3s burning. Under optimal conditions, its doing 105 damage every 3s. Spirit burn does 110 damage against AL 60 at max skill and costs half the energy every 5s. Adding in 25% armor penetration you are looking at 142 damage. (makes lightning orb look stupid at the same time)

Rodgort's Invocation does 127 damage and 3s of burning, netting ideally 169 damage to nearby foes. Spirit rift inflicts 142 damage to adjacent foes. Adding in the same 25% armor penetration you are looking at 184 daage for 10 energy every 5s. Rewinding back to ancestor's rage makes rodgort's invocation look rather weak as well.

Tweak from gaze from beyond allows it to do 124 damage, which gets pushed up to 160 damage using the same penetration.

Seriously, they need to do something other than give rits the omgwtfnuke better than everyone eliete and take DwG in some other direction. They were competitive before that was introduced and that, while at the "appropriate", original level is way over the top. Playing with it at 5-10% feels like making a strength stat eliete, even though if the skill was 10% it would make many of the skills perform almost identically to the overpriced elementalist equivilants in the air line and make the fire line just cry while rocking its self to sleep in the corner while getting kicked in the head.

whobitz · Jan 22, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I'd say it's easier to keep up energy as an elementalist than a rit holding DwG. Especially when you consider the fact that you're spending 10 energy once every 11 seconds just to maintain it in a fight. So that's about 1 energy/second, or 3 pips(?) spent on maintaining the damage. The MAX energy you can have is ~50, by using full radiant, 1-2 runes of attunement, and Empowerment for your spirit. If you decide to go into Inspiration for e-management, something else will take a hit, probably restoration (I'm just assuming a good number rits would run part restoration for healing/support). And don't be saying that you need 12+ energy storage to make an elementalist work. Mine runs at 10 or less, and that's more than is really needed, giving you a good number of points to spend elsewhere (Mystic Regen?...).

That being said, I agree now that even 25% AP on DwG would be kinda high, though 10% seems kinda low. 15% sounds good...but anything is better than 5%.

And by the way, Spirit Rift, though the highest damaging skill in channeling, is crap. Unless you have a copy of Gale that someone sincs with it.

Phades · Jan 23, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by whobitz

I'd say it's easier to keep up energy as an elementalist than a rit holding DwG.

This is false, considering the rit skills cost 5-10 energy opposed to 10-25 energy. Energy storage is not energy management. To trim down the out going energy expendature, as a ele you are forced into using the fragile attunements, potentially blow yourself up in the face of a grenth dervish with e-prod, or play the focus swap game with ether prism. Most of those options require the ele to waste his eliete slot on energy management, while by comparison the rit gets to increase his damage potential and having efficient skills as a bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whobitz

If you decide to go into Inspiration for e-management, something else will take a hit, probably restoration (I'm just assuming a good number rits would run part restoration for healing/support). And don't be saying that you need 12+ energy storage to make an elementalist work.

Glyph of lesser energy and essence strike is more than adequate for the ritualist. 12 energy storage is manditory for ether prism, but not other builds. Note that the ritualist doesnt have to spend any points in spawning power btw its not like he is using AWS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whobitz

That being said, I agree now that even 25% AP on DwG would be kinda high, though 10% seems kinda low. 15% sounds good...but anything is better than 5%.

Simply stated 5% isnt worth it. 10% makes the 63 damage nukes do 69(.9) damage and the bigger nukes exceede their ele counterparts being in the 152-3+ range. Doing that makes the damage equal or better, while having the perks of better recharges, lower energy cost and faster casting times. Simply stated, even 10% armor pen makes the direct ele nukes obscelete, even though its still questionable for the eliete slot given the alternatives, which i find to be kinda depressing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whobitz

And by the way, Spirit Rift, though the highest damaging skill in channeling, is crap. Unless you have a copy of Gale that someone sincs with it.

Neat, because its far easier to get off 2 1s cast time spells instead of a 2-3 second cast time spell followed by a 1s cast time spell. Incidentially spirit rift's recharge happens to be exactly the same as gale's, imagine that. An absurd single caster spike while the AP was bugged was spirit rift->gale->channeled strike roughly 432 damage

Merlins Valor · Jan 23, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

are we going to see a nerf on Sandstorm ? its seriously too powerful, it should have a longer recharge time atleast.

Cathode_Reborn · Jan 23, 2007, 05:45 AM // 05:45

My main question is, what's gonna happen to the buffed skills that didnt really get any attention? There's a few, and I hope they get buffed again now that all the changes have seem to be undone.

I was really enjoyin Price of Failure's 2 sec cast time and added damage. 3secs to cast a spell really feels like ages

whobitz · Jan 23, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

This is false, considering the rit skills cost 5-10 energy opposed to 10-25 energy. Energy storage is not energy management. To trim down the out going energy expendature, as a ele you are forced into using the fragile attunements, potentially blow yourself up in the face of a grenth dervish with e-prod, or play the focus swap game with ether prism. Most of those options require the ele to waste his eliete slot on energy management, while by comparison the rit gets to increase his damage potential and having efficient skills as a bonus.

Glyph of lesser energy and essence strike is more than adequate for the ritualist. 12 energy storage is manditory for ether prism, but not other builds. Note that the ritualist doesnt have to spend any points in spawning power btw its not like he is using AWS.

Simply stated 5% isnt worth it. 10% makes the 63 damage nukes do 69(.9) damage and the bigger nukes exceede their ele counterparts being in the 152-3+ range. Doing that makes the damage equal or better, while having the perks of better recharges, lower energy cost and faster casting times. Simply stated, even 10% armor pen makes the direct ele nukes obscelete, even though its still questionable for the eliete slot given the alternatives, which i find to be kinda depressing.

Neat, because its far easier to get off 2 1s cast time spells instead of a 2-3 second cast time spell followed by a 1s cast time spell. Incidentially spirit rift's recharge happens to be exactly the same as gale's, imagine that. An absurd single caster spike while the AP was bugged was spirit rift->gale->channeled strike roughly 432 damage

Okay, you make a better arguement than I do. I'm also a PvP noob, and just had a little too much fun when it was broken. Seems to me though, rift->gale->channeled would end up hitting about a second off, even though it'd be the biggest spike you could achieve. It would also cost a lot of energy+exhaustion (with a pool of 40~50), but you did mention GoLE. Seems like rift->gale->gaze would hit closer together.

Chipp Zanuff · Jan 23, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Some changes weren't listed , maybe you didn't noticed but Cautery Signet and Leader's Comfort had their casting times raised to 3 seconds (from 2).

I could understand Cautery Signetbut Leader's Comfort?! D:

Miss Innocent · Jan 25, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Requiring more than 12 Shadow arts to make Shadow of Haste usable is too much. I'll agree that it should require some commitment to Shadow, but 12 is just too high.

I did think that Feigned Neutrality was a little too good, I didn't mind that change as much.

Also, Ele does feel lame. I play Ele often enough, and it seems like it's the worst class for doing damage. At best, it does about the same damage a warrior does, but Ele has to spend energy to get that. I just have to wonder "Why go ele at all?".

If Fire is defined by AoE, why not make some of the areas bigger? Adjacent seems to hit multiple targets so rarely, but nearby is much better about it.

bu3 · Feb 01, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

I would like to know why they can not list the skills that they are going to change and the reasons for it, before they implement them.

My point is I have a large number of characters of many different types and to work through all my characters and skills take a long time.

In general I would like to say this these seem to have affected most in my guild and alliance badly and even problems with range of weapons and skills are becoming a real pain!

If we were aware of these changes we could then check them out more thoroughly and give a profession feed back not just a disjointed mix of skills works for me attitude which they seem to thrive on.

Come on don't let the game down now!!